VW: social media rebellion - an experiment

uman influence climate change is still very much an understudied hypothesis which western governments are jumping on in order to create a green energy bubble (see Germany). How typical of a leftist organisation to take pseudoscience as fact and propagandize to an ill informed public. VW are well within their right to oppose climate legislation just as it is within the right of GreenPeace to support it.

well, thanks for yor info but I believe I am very well informed and your comment  sounds like  a typical  full- of-fear one who prefers profit bubbles than green ones :-]. 

No offense, but you guys are coming off as completely self-righteous and full of nonsense. 

Don't get me wrong, I understand standing up for things you see which are wrong.  But no matter how much I Google around, I can't find any real discussion at all about these issues which you're claiming exist.  No detailed information which could allow for one to make an educated opinion about the company or the allegations against it.

All I can find are posts like this which just make a claim and ask for rallying, relying on people to simply blindly follow your request, and then hudreds of people doing just that, going around on facebook blindly following your request and posting the same parroted questions.  To the not-so-easily-led, this just makes you appear full of hot air.

Rude?  You honestly expect any global company to have people authorized to speak for the CEO of the parent company in response to thousands of people repeating it?  Rude is going to places like facebook pages in other countries, like the Chattanooga Operations page, which is geared at keeping people up-to-date on the goings-on of the recently platinum LEED certified manufacturing facility, and forcing people to pay attention to you by parroting the same rhetoric over and over.  All you're doing is trying to hijack the intent of the forum, and pissing on the spirits of the people who work hard in that region, under the guise of standing up for something, which none of the sheep can bother to elaborate on, and which has nothing to do with the people reading or responsible for the page on which you're posting.

When you're too eager to vaguely speak out, motivated by vague rallying cries like this thread, you just come off as self-righteous, not consciencious.

Hi MarkD

You'll find all the detailed information you requested here in the full report: http://www.vwdarkside.com/en/pages/vw-report

I'll stop posting on Volkswagen's social media pages when they answer my questions. Ignoring us won't make us go away.

Neil

"I'll stop posting on Volkswagen's social media pages when they answer my questions. Ignoring us won't make us go away."

Well Neil, you can't just assign an obligation to respond to you personally to whoever you decide to direct rhetoric at.  But that aside, using avenues which do not reach the intended target, doesn't mean that someone is ignoring you.  You're just committing to annoying people with rhetorical questions which have nothing to do with them... 

Generating spam to the Vokswagen pages on Facebook? That is endeed really rude! want the people to do the job for you!! Come on just do it yourself!!

Mark - I've expressed my views as to your comments, more fully on the other thread. But in brief:

But that aside,
using avenues which do not reach the intended target, doesn't mean that
someone is ignoring you.  You're just committing to annoying people
with rhetorical questions which have nothing to do with them... 

This is starting to sound like the, ;we were just obeying orders' argument - if these PR people work for Volkswagen, they have a responibility to explain to the public what's going on, and they have a responsibility for Volkswagens climate wrecking ways. If they (you?) don't like it they/you should quie, and explain in their/your letter of resignation why you're leaving.

While VW are destroying my childrens future, then it's entirely appropriate to post comments on Facebook, and probably a whole lot more. VW must stop getting in the way of European laws they don't like.

Andrew Holway said "climate change is still very much an understudied hypothesis" - er, no - there's a VERY large body of peer-reviewed science showing it to be real. If someone chooses to dispute this, well, fine but frankly it's like refusing to accept that the moon is rock rather than cheese.

MarkD said "no matter how much I Google around, I can't find any real discussion at all about these issues which you're claiming exist" - that's because it's been happenning behind closed doors and VW have been keeping it VERY quiet. Also, MarkD seems unhappy because he feels social media isn't the right forum for this issue - however, we have contacted VW via various more traditional routes with a similar lack of response. PR people at VW will see our messages and can pass them up the managerial ladder quite easily. Don't forget, Greenpeace is not anti-VW - it just wants the company to stop lobbying against climate change legislation.

cris tompson said "want the people to do the job for you!! Come on just do it yourself!!" - er, that's exactly what we are doing...

What is true is that VW are promoting a green image through their advertising, but acting in direct opposition to this, and this is irresponsible in the extreme when carbon emissions need to be reduced.

"We, customers, hold the wallet; we have no problem using it with an environmentally responsible company."

And dcaron, which company would that be?  Which major manufacturer doesn't make gas guzzlers along with it's sippers, lax in emissions in nations where the standards are lax, because they stand to make better profits with fewer environmental restrictions?  Are you all going to just buy Smart cars because they tell you they're smart?  Any clue how they compare to a VW or Audi TDI?  Probably not.

You see Mark, what you don't understand is that it’s not
just the hippies that understand environmental issues anymore, but all spans of
society. Your argument is shallow and without substance. You think that it’s
only cars that my wallet can impact, it can also impact travel, it can impact
research, it can impact the products I choose like plastic and use alternative
options that reduces oil consumptions, even with toothpaste if I want to. I'm a smart enough consumer to know not the get greenwahsed either.

VW is just one of many companies
that need to listen and understand that there are a lot of us, consumers, that are now very
active in choosing what we buy and what we don't. And I want VW among others to
know that it’s no longer ok to drive policies that have deep social stains.
So if it means that I will never buy a "new" VW to make that point, so be it, afterall, if I only buy a used cars in the future, there is not a lot of new money for VW or others. There are other options as well. Trust me, we can get very creative.

So, unless you are simply an agitator, please try to add some substance to your argument
and propose other solutions if you don't like this one, but please don’t be just a naysayer, it not very elegant.

Simon, you don't seem to understand what we're discussing here, you and I.  I didn't say that they don't advertise blue.  I said only in your rhetoric do they appear to advertise blue while acting black.

All manufacturers advertise their varying types of vehicles.  Some big things that attract people are low fuel consumption, power/performance, and price.  So VW, just like any other, will advertise green/blue, they'll advertise low consumption, they'll advertise power, and they'll also advertise price and offer base models.  And maybe you're not aware, but people can choose to build and order their own vehicles, and wait for it to be built and shipped if they don't find what they want sitting on a dealer's lot. 

So if most people wanted just consumption, there would be great enough demand to warrant focusing production on those vehicles.  The "problem" with green isn't companies any more than it is the consumer base.  No company, no matter how big, would do well to stop producing what is in highest demand in order to try to force the majority to buy what the minority want them to.  But as long as people also want models that focus on power, or focus on
low cost, those will continue to be mass produced as well, by all manufacturers.

When you say "links to reports" what you really mean is "links to propaganda articles."  There's a HUGE difference between an article with pictures and bold anti-VW quotes, with general statements and claims, versus an actual report or study containing graphs and charts or at least a spreadsheet or list with a broad range of statistics comparing specs of vehicles, and percentages of sales of each type of vehicle, across a broad range of manufacturers.  The latter of which I haven't seen anything close to regarding the source of the claims in your rhetoric and propaganda.  That all supports my claim that the "why VW" has to do with the size of the target they represent moreso than actually being particularly "evil."

In your 6% efficiency stat, are you including all of VW group's brands?  I would find it kinda silly to suggest that VW are evil compared to a company with more choices of efficient vehicles if you base it on the fact that VWaG have less efficient brands of commercial vehicles and high end sports cars, especially without bothering to mention the percentages of the lesser efficiency vehicle their competitors also sell.  But if you're simply suggesting this 6% within just the VW brand, do you really intend for me to believe that only 6 out of every 100 VW cars are a TDI?  I'd have to ask for a source for that figure as well.

I'm actually trying to be fairly objective in what I'm saying to you.  I'm questioning the motive, direction, and lack of statistical data supporting claims, as well as suggesting that this campaign in particular doesn't do much but annoy common folk.  Calling me daft, lazy, ill informed, bought off, or any such thing isn't much of a response to that.