Thinking about a games console for Christmas?

Whilst I think its great that Greenpeace is trying to address the problems of toxicity in games consoles and other electrical equipment, i wonder why the question of 'do we actually need any of this 'stuff' remains unasked?

The needs of the narcisstic human always seem to outweigh the needs of the natural world. By environmental NGO's saying that we 'need' greener games consoles, you are sliding the premise by that we need them at all. We don't.

The right of some rich western kid to play his X box, does not ouweigh the right of polar bears not to starve, or the rights of poor people who were undoubtably forced off their land so that the 'resources' could be mined to make these things in the first place.

So do we need greener games consoles? No, we just need to not make them full stop.

Hi Tracy,

Thanks for your reply..

You said:
***And technology can have either a positive or a negative role in that future, but like it or not it is here to stay***

Given that ALL our technology is unsustainable (going by the actual definition of sustainable rather than the greenwash one- which is that you give back the same or more than you take), i would disagree with this statement.

Our entire culture and technology is based on using and abusing a finite amount of resources, therefore by its very definition it is not sustainable. One day it will end, the only question is what will be left of this planet when it does....

Greenpeace seems to be becoming less and less in touch with reality.

Reality is not the economic system, it's not about people using their laptops or their mobiles or their X boxes or any other number of distractions which we may use so that we don't actually have to LIVE a real life.

The reality is that these things are destroying the planet, we only have one, and without it there is nothing.

So as much as you may not want to give up your electronic gadgets, with all the world at stake do you really think thats a realistic choice to make?

" I'm sorry the planet was destroyed but i was busy playing my (green) games console...." hmmm

Tracy

"What are WE going to do about it?"

I have already done it: Accept that we are addicted to the consumer culture and that we must be free of it. Reject the systems that tell us what kind of life we should be living. Free yourself of that culture.

It's not easy to rid yourself of an addiction, and it may be impossible to cure it, but the simple act of saying "NO!" to the consumer dream is so liberating that that itself can become an addiction. An addiction to life.

By following things like "The New Shopping Order" (WHY haven't Greenpeace promoted this, it's so simple!) you return to a world that cared more about each other than about your next acquisition; and you also take part in bringing down the economy.

By redefining what you mean by A Good Life then you realise how shallow and empty the consumer lifestyle is.

By taking back our links with the world and reconnecting with the thing that gives us life, we redefine humanity in the model of nature, not the model of capitalism.

We must break out of the confines of the system (you might not like this one) that demands we follow its rules and make an assumption that the answers lie outside the current culture that has taken us to the brink of destruction. This is a culture of death - it will kill us, and eveything else it can so we must reject it entirely.

Tell everyone else and make them listen.

That's the start. I am working on the rest.

Keith
www.theearthblog.org

Tracey, I agree with your balanced and realistic approach, I mean even us lot posting on a greenpeace forum all have or are using a computer.

Keith - you cant make people listen! Although it would be nice and you are quite correct in what you say :)..have you read the celestine prophecy by James Redfield?

I presume everyone has read or heard of George Orwell's1984.

Thanks Keith. I agree with what you are saying, and thanks for the New Shopping Order reference. I don’t like the world we live in and I am trying to change it. But while we need to redefine what people consider to be a good life I think we need to work on more than one level.

One route is as you say to change our consumer lifestyle and get people to realise that they can’t eat money; that getting pleasure from consumer goods is ultimately hollow. We currently live in a world disconnected from nature and most city kids couldn’t tell you where their food comes from, let alone the consequences of their shopping habits.

Greenpeace has traditionally operated on a tactical level, trying to expose and stop environmental damage bit by bit with a long term vision for a green and peaceful planet. I agree this needs to change and we need to look at our lifestyles on the whole and communicate not just the world we want to live in, but how we all need to change and work together to make that happen.

And we are slowing trying to figure out how to do that and I hope you will see more of it in the not too distant future. And I hope you will continue to be a part of it here. Because while we can tell people about the impact they are having on our planet, the job at hand is going to require collaboration on a massive scale. And that also means going back to our roots, opening up Greenpeace and getting everyone involved again, because we can’t do this without you.

Yet at the same time I think we must continue to expose environmental abuse where it begins. I think for many people, before we can tell them to change their lifestyle wholesale and give up the world advertisers promise will lead to sex, money and respect from their peers, we need to first make them aware of their impact, and make them care, if not about the environment, then of being shunned by their friends for their prehistoric attitudes.

I don’t think that this is merely pandering to the popular culture, but a back door into that world, a way to start the conversation with people who accept that the life they’ve been presented with is as good as it gets.

But if you don't use soft tactics no-one will ever listen.

If you shout at someone they'll shut you out completely, if you slyly slip messages into thier subconcious they will stop being brain washed by the media and start to believe in our current views that the world is heading for doom.
Most people are idiots, they will not think for themselfs, if you give them the option they'll turn back to thier idiot boxes and continue to block out the views of greenpeace, ect.
What really needs to be done is more like what greenpeace is doing, but to a bigger extent. to get more people involved, you have to attack thier subconious as most people are too brainwashed by this current society to snap them out of it.
If childrens programmes all had these green messages in then the children would grow up beleive that is normal and would probably automaticly do green acts when they grew up.
If you say the impact isn't great enoguh soon enough place the messages into adult programmes as well.

I'm sorry but the hard fact is that it is was survival of the fitest world.
i understand saving the spechies that we as humans are killing but those that are being attacked by other animals we should leave, i'm not oging to start interfeering with things that aren't my business.

I'm also going to appologise for the bad typing, i'm tierd.

rickygeorge, I deleted your comment for breach of our house rules - no advertising or spam please.

Cheers,

Bex

Whilst I think its great that Greenpeace is trying to address the problems of toxicity in games consoles and other electrical equipment, i wonder why the question of 'do we actually need any of this 'stuff' remains unasked? The needs of the narcisstic human always seem to outweigh the needs of the natural world. By environmental NGO's saying that we 'need' greener games consoles, you are sliding the premise by that we need them at all. We don't. The right of some rich western kid to play his X box, does not ouweigh the right of polar bears not to starve, or the rights of poor people who were undoubtably forced off their land so that the 'resources' could be mined to make these things in the first place. So do we need greener games consoles? No, we just need to not make them full stop.

Hi Tracy, Thanks for your reply.. You said: ***And technology can have either a positive or a negative role in that future, but like it or not it is here to stay*** Given that ALL our technology is unsustainable (going by the actual definition of sustainable rather than the greenwash one- which is that you give back the same or more than you take), i would disagree with this statement. Our entire culture and technology is based on using and abusing a finite amount of resources, therefore by its very definition it is not sustainable. One day it will end, the only question is what will be left of this planet when it does....

Greenpeace seems to be becoming less and less in touch with reality. Reality is not the economic system, it's not about people using their laptops or their mobiles or their X boxes or any other number of distractions which we may use so that we don't actually have to LIVE a real life. The reality is that these things are destroying the planet, we only have one, and without it there is nothing. So as much as you may not want to give up your electronic gadgets, with all the world at stake do you really think thats a realistic choice to make? " I'm sorry the planet was destroyed but i was busy playing my (green) games console...." hmmm

Tracy "What are WE going to do about it?" I have already done it: Accept that we are addicted to the consumer culture and that we must be free of it. Reject the systems that tell us what kind of life we should be living. Free yourself of that culture. It's not easy to rid yourself of an addiction, and it may be impossible to cure it, but the simple act of saying "NO!" to the consumer dream is so liberating that that itself can become an addiction. An addiction to life. By following things like "The New Shopping Order" (WHY haven't Greenpeace promoted this, it's so simple!) you return to a world that cared more about each other than about your next acquisition; and you also take part in bringing down the economy. By redefining what you mean by A Good Life then you realise how shallow and empty the consumer lifestyle is. By taking back our links with the world and reconnecting with the thing that gives us life, we redefine humanity in the model of nature, not the model of capitalism. We must break out of the confines of the system (you might not like this one) that demands we follow its rules and make an assumption that the answers lie outside the current culture that has taken us to the brink of destruction. This is a culture of death - it will kill us, and eveything else it can so we must reject it entirely. Tell everyone else and make them listen. That's the start. I am working on the rest.

Keith www.theearthblog.org

Tracey, I agree with your balanced and realistic approach, I mean even us lot posting on a greenpeace forum all have or are using a computer. Keith - you cant make people listen! Although it would be nice and you are quite correct in what you say :)..have you read the celestine prophecy by James Redfield? I presume everyone has read or heard of George Orwell's1984.

Thanks Keith. I agree with what you are saying, and thanks for the New Shopping Order reference. I don’t like the world we live in and I am trying to change it. But while we need to redefine what people consider to be a good life I think we need to work on more than one level. One route is as you say to change our consumer lifestyle and get people to realise that they can’t eat money; that getting pleasure from consumer goods is ultimately hollow. We currently live in a world disconnected from nature and most city kids couldn’t tell you where their food comes from, let alone the consequences of their shopping habits. Greenpeace has traditionally operated on a tactical level, trying to expose and stop environmental damage bit by bit with a long term vision for a green and peaceful planet. I agree this needs to change and we need to look at our lifestyles on the whole and communicate not just the world we want to live in, but how we all need to change and work together to make that happen. And we are slowing trying to figure out how to do that and I hope you will see more of it in the not too distant future. And I hope you will continue to be a part of it here. Because while we can tell people about the impact they are having on our planet, the job at hand is going to require collaboration on a massive scale. And that also means going back to our roots, opening up Greenpeace and getting everyone involved again, because we can’t do this without you. Yet at the same time I think we must continue to expose environmental abuse where it begins. I think for many people, before we can tell them to change their lifestyle wholesale and give up the world advertisers promise will lead to sex, money and respect from their peers, we need to first make them aware of their impact, and make them care, if not about the environment, then of being shunned by their friends for their prehistoric attitudes. I don’t think that this is merely pandering to the popular culture, but a back door into that world, a way to start the conversation with people who accept that the life they’ve been presented with is as good as it gets.

But if you don't use soft tactics no-one will ever listen. If you shout at someone they'll shut you out completely, if you slyly slip messages into thier subconcious they will stop being brain washed by the media and start to believe in our current views that the world is heading for doom. Most people are idiots, they will not think for themselfs, if you give them the option they'll turn back to thier idiot boxes and continue to block out the views of greenpeace, ect. What really needs to be done is more like what greenpeace is doing, but to a bigger extent. to get more people involved, you have to attack thier subconious as most people are too brainwashed by this current society to snap them out of it. If childrens programmes all had these green messages in then the children would grow up beleive that is normal and would probably automaticly do green acts when they grew up. If you say the impact isn't great enoguh soon enough place the messages into adult programmes as well.

I'm sorry but the hard fact is that it is was survival of the fitest world. i understand saving the spechies that we as humans are killing but those that are being attacked by other animals we should leave, i'm not oging to start interfeering with things that aren't my business. I'm also going to appologise for the bad typing, i'm tierd.

rickygeorge, I deleted your comment for breach of our house rules - no advertising or spam please. Cheers, Bex